Tag Archives: Liverpool

The Isle of Man Ancestors of Paul McCartney

Paul-Mccartney-9390850-1-402The ancestry of James Paul McCartney (18 June, 1942) is on the whole of Irish descent. His mother, Mary Patricia Mahon was born circa. 1909 at Liverpool (died 1956) and his father James McCartney (born 7 July, 1902) also at Liverpool. Mary’s parents were Owen Mohin (born County Monaghan, Ireland) and Mary Therasa Danher (sometimes spelled as Danaher) and born at Liverpool, though her father John hailed from Ireland. Her maternal grandmother was from the Dudley area. James’ parents were Joseph McCartney (born Liverpool circa. 1867) and Florence Clegg (born circa. 1875 at Liverpool). Again, Joseph’s descent is Irish and knowing that Irish records are not the most accesible records on the net, I was interested to find out Florence’s family tree.

Joseph and Florence were married on 17 May, 1896 at Christ Church, Kensington, Liverpool. Both fathers were stated as being deceased, Paul Clegg a fish salesman and James McCartney a painter. When I started looking for Florence’s family in the 1881 census I found that her father had died and her mother was named Jane Clegg, a fish monger’s widow. They lived in what appears to be 13 Caud Street, though this may have been abbreviated, possibly Caudwell Street. The other members of the family were daughters Ann A Clegg (29), Paul (26), Gilbert (12) and of course Florence (6). Interestingly Jane was born in the Isle of Man, but the children were all born in Liverpool. But were they Jane’s children? The ages of the oldest children suggest not. Finding them in the 1871 census was not difficult.

Paul Clegg (55) Fishmonger born Isle of Man
Jane Clegg (33) wife born Isle of Man
Robert Clegg (61) brother born Isle of Man
Elizabeth Clegg (24) dau. born Liverpool
Anne A Clegg (18) dau. born Liverpool
Paul Clegg (16) son born Liverpool
Gilbert Clegg (1) son born Liverpool

Abode: 131 Breck Road

Source: http://www.ancestry.co.uk

With the arrival of Florence in about 1875, we can deduce that her father Paul died in the years leading to the 1881 census. A quick check on http://www.freebmd.org.uk reaveals that a Paul Clegg died in the Liverpool Registration District in the Dec quarter of 1879, aged 64. This matches perfectly a christening date for a Paul Clegg on 7 December, 1815 at Arbory, Isle of Man (“Isle of Man, Births and Baptisms, 1821-1911,” index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X5GR-R4C : accessed 30 Apr 2013), Paul Clague, 07 Dec

However, sometime during his early years residing in Liverpool Paul anglicised his name to Clegg. We can see this by examining his marriage records. He was wed 3 times. His first marriage was to Ann Bell on 25 August 1840. (“England, Marriages, 1538–1973 ,” index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NF16-G9J : accessed 30 Apr 2013), Paul Clague and Ann Bell, 25 Aug 1840).

Ann would have been the mother of Thomas Bell Clegg, baptised 15 October 1841 at St. Augustine Church, Everton; William (c.1843); Margaret (1844) and Elizabeth (1845). I did find baptism records for children with these names and birth years but I was confused with the entries for their father and his occupation. The Paul Clegg that I was after consistently stated his occupation on the census as a fish monger, and yet on the baptism records they state that he was a pattern maker, which suggests to me that he worked in a factory.

Ann must have died soon after 1845 because Paul married his second wife, Margaret Bell on 29 January, 1849 at St Nicholas Church, Liverpool (“England Marriages, 1538–1973 ,” index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N2TY-YQY : accessed 30 Apr 2013), Paul Clegg and Margaret Bell, 29 Jan 1849).

Was she a relation to Ann, his first wife? A sister perhaps? According to the 1861 census, Margaret gave birth to 2 children, Anne Alice Clegg (c.1852) and Paul Clegg (c. 1855). Margaret died soon after (there is a death registration for a Margaret Clegg in Q3 1856 in Liverpool) and we find Paul a widower again in the 1861 census. Not for long! He marries a Jane Clague in 1863 and a closer look at his 1861 census household and we see a 23 year old Jane Clegg, born in the Isle of Man, working as his servant. The similarity in their surnames suggest that there was a degree of kinship between them.  They had 2 children, Gilbert Cummins G. Clegg (1869) and Florence (c.1875), Paul McCartney’s paternal grandmother. It appears that the couple had a child named Gilbert Cummins Clegg born 1864, but died in the West Derby area in Q1 1866.

So, it appears that Paul McCartney had the chance to exist because his great grandfather from the Isle of Man suffered two bereavements from the early deaths of his wives and married for his last wife, his young servant, in the early 1860’s. What happened to Florence’s only full brother, Gilbert?

He married Rose Roberts in the West Derby area in Q4 1891 and they had 6 children, 4 alive in 1911, Jane, Gilbert, John Paul and Joseph Gilbert. Their details are on a public tree on Ancestry. It also states that the G initial in his name stands for Grimes. In 1901 Gilbert senior was working as a dock labourer and lived at 152 Friar Street in the Everton area. By 1911 he was employed as a tram conductor, living at 6 Blyth Street, Everton. He died in 1941.

When I encounter personal names when I’m researching family trees I get quite curious about how they have been chosen. They usually reflect previous generations and are a great help, though not confirmation of, in connecting past generations. The name ‘Gilbert’ stands out in Paul McCartney’s tree and I was determined to find out if there were any links to an ancestor. Who could I find if I went further down in time?

The information contained in this post is the cumulation of the research I conducted last September. The public tree I found yesterday when I was familiarising with my notes has revealed differing information from my research. Whether I am right or not, I think it’s important to state both conclusions, but I will say that my findings has revealed an ancestor with the name Gilbert.

So, who were the parents of Paul Clegg (or Clague)? In the 1871 census mentioned earlier (see above) it states that Paul’s brother Robert was residing with them and that he was 61 years old. Looking for a birth/baptism for a Robert Clague circa. 1810 (and the name would have not have been Anglesised at this early date), I found the following entry on the FamilySearch website:

Robert Clague christened 5 March 1810 Arbory, Isle of Man
Parents: Robert Clague, Elizabeth Commish

Source: “Isle of Man, Births and Baptisms, 1821-1911,” index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X5GT-CVC : accessed
01 May 2013), Robt Clague, 05 Mar 1810.

I had already established Paul Clague’s christening as occcuring in 1815 (see earlier), and they both have the same parents. The only record I can find on FamilySearch for a marriage between a Robert Clague and an Elizabeth is:

Robert Clague married Elizabeth Corrin on 3 October, 1808 at Malew, Isle of Man

Source: “Isle of Man, Parish Registers, 1598-1950,” index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XZ11-P94 : accessed 01
May 2013), Robert Clague and Elizabeth Corrin, 1808.

Now, two things could be happening here. It may be that Elizabeth’s surname has been mistranscribed, and being unable to view the original Isle of Man marriage records I can only speculate that this is a possibility. The babtism records for Paul and Robert state her name was Commish, which is a surname commonly found in the Isle of Man in this period. I have also seen the surname Comaish which is very close to what I’ve discovered, and it is similar to the middle name of Cummins given to Gilbert Clegg (see earlier) born 1869. It probably is all down to pronounciation and ignorance the spelling of the name, a common occurance in the history of recording and registering names. Nevertheless, I am satisfied that the correct parents of Paul and Robert Clague was Robert Clague and Elizabeth Commish. I am of the impression that the public tree information stating that the marriage occurred on 19 December, 1807 at Arbory is
the correct one. The babtisms for both Paul and Robert were held at Arbory, as were William Clague (13 November, 1808), Charles (9 October, 1814) and Richard 24 January, 1813). The babtisms for the children of the other Robert Clague and Elizabeth Corrin, itself a surname common on the Isle of Man, were held at Malew, including a Robert Clague on 16 March, 1817 (“Isle of Man, Births and Baptisms,
1821-1911,” index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X5G6-MYW : accessed 01 May 2013), Robt Clague, 16 Mar 1817). To confuse further, the mother is listed as Elinor Corrin and not Elizabeth. This suggests that this Robert is not the brother of Paul because the discrepancy in their ages is too great.

So, I go on to find the parents of Elizabeth Comish and see what I can find.

Elizabeth Commish christened 6 July, 1783 Arbory, Isle of Man.
Parents: William Comish, Cath Costeen

Source: Unknown!

I found this entry in my notebook which looks like it was transcribed from the FamilySearch databases, but when I looked for it yesterday online there is no entry to be found. Therefore the only source I can quote is a secondary one, probably an Ancestry.co.uk public tree. The entry states that her parents were William Comish and Cath Costeen. Next I enter for a birth for a William Comish to see what comes up and I find this:

William Comish christened 27 November, 1743 Arbory, Isle of Man.

Parents: Gilbert Comish, Margaret Clark.

Source: “Isle of Man, Parish Registers, 1598-1950,” index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X8S9-KQ2 : accessed 01 May 2013), Wm Comish Clark, 1743.

Could this be the elusive ancestor with the ‘Gilbert’ name that was passed to Paul McCartney’s great uncle Gilbert? It seems to fit, but I’m not conclusively stating that I am right. The reason for this is that there is always the possibility that there are other
Gilberts about at this time. Consider this possibility. On the public tree that I have previously mentioned in this post, it is stated that the William Comish who married Cath Costeen (which I’m happy with) was the son of another William Comish and his wife Anne (Cubon), married on the 1 July, 1735 at Arbory. They had a son called William, baptised at Arbory on 5 July, 1741. So, we have two William Comishes, one born in 1741 and the other 1743, with fathers named Gilbert and William, who might well be brothers with a
father named Gilbert. Perhaps a diagram may explain better.

Comish tree

I am in the awkward position of not really knowing which is the right William, after learning of the existence of the William that was
born in 1741. Making it even more troublesome is that there is only one marriage found on FamilySearch for a Gilbert Comish.

Gilbert Comish married Margaret Kaveen 24 July, 1736, Arbory

Source: “Isle of Man, Parish Registers, 1598-1950,” index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X8S3-Z88 : accessed 01
May 2013), Gilbert Comish and Margt Kaveen, 1736.

Could this be a wild mistranscription of Clark/Kaveen? Why is there no marriage record for a Gilbert Comish and Margaret Clark, though
that is what is stated in the baptism records of William Comish (1743).

This is, unfortunately, as far as I dare to go!

There is no doubt in my mind that I have found the source of the ‘Gilbert’ ancestor in Paul McCartney’s family tree. I just can’t
conclusively state how he fits into it. My gut feeling is that I am on the right track with the Gilbert/Margaret Clark line. They also
had a daughter, predictably, named Margaret and that name is continued into future generations, though Margaret is a popular name and
Paul Clague’s second wife was also named Margaret.


Looking closer to this publicly accessible family tree on Ancestry reveals a Welsh connection in Paul McCartney’s family history. I haven’t checked the facts myself but the researcher has provided copies of marriage certificate for James McCartney, Paul’s great grandfather. He married Elizabeth Williams whose grandfather was a Welsh mariner named William Williams who was born either in the Mold area or a place in Flintshire.



Philosophise this! The Ancestry of Gilbert Ryle

These past few years, I have loved reading about philosophy and learning about the many different perspectives on life. Ever since I was a child I have wondered about why I’m alive and what I am meant to do with my precious life. Of course, in those distant times my mind could not possibly cope with what it can fathom today, and this temporal concept of an ever changing state of mind has become a major interest with me. Researching family trees gives me a buzz. I could do it all day and it wouldn’t bore me, and I’ve found that it gives me the kind of positive energy that I need. At last, I may have found something I am good at! Anyway, with my latest ancestry blog research interest I found an abundance of interesting discoveries, such as prominent men of the cloth, architects and medical practitioners, and wealthy plantation owners in the Carribean, and a possible genealogical link to a certain Mr. Raleigh.

Having decided where I was going to look for my next project, I leafed through a general philosophy book I have at home and looked for any British philosophers. I first came across Bertrand Russell, one of the finest and well known, but decided against it, this time, thinking that he’d been probably done by a few genealogists because of his titled ancestry. However, I did notice something interesting about him that I wasn’t aware of. He was born in Monmouth and died at Penrhyndeudraeth. Penrhyndeudraeth! I grew up only a few miles away in Blaenau Ffestiniog. I couldn’t help myself, but an existential thought came over me. I wish I had known about this at such a young and unworldly age ( I would have been 7 when Russell died) so I could be aware of such an eminent philosopher living literally 20 minutes by road. And he must have visited my home town of Blaenau Ffestiniog at some time I’m sure. Then I realised that I am not that 7 year old that grew up with such flippant ignorance, and would not have given a second thought if I had got in his way while shoping with my mother at Kwiksave! I realised that I had transport a wishful thought in the present time into a long disappeared 7 year old state of mind, which had probably more important things to concern itself, such as when was I going to football next or what were The Banana Splits going to be up to this Saturday morning. The 49 year old in me had wished I’d known he was so close that I could pop down for a visit, on the Blaenau-Porthmadog Crossville bus. This was the frightenly fast, automatic thought that entered my head when I found out this piece of information. And at a similar supersonic speed I managed to restore the balance between reality and surreality by realising how absurd that thought was.

So, who did I come across next? Which philosopher came second to B.R? Well, when I completed my research on him I was glad that Gilbert Ryle was the one that I chose. Who, may you ask, is Gilbert Ryle? I have to admit I hadn’t a clue who he was or what his philosophical leanings were. I found that he wrote a very influential book called ‘The Concept of Mind’ (1949) and he was the first to coin the phrase ‘the ghost in the machine’. His interest is specifically at the linquistic methods that we use to describe what we see and do, which in turn influences our thinking. Anyway, this is what I found researching his family tree.

He was born in August 1900 at Brighton the son of a doctor, Reginald John Ryle, and his wife Catherine. He had a twin sister, Mary, and they were members of a fairly decent sized family. I knew from Wikipedia that Gilbert had a grandfather who became Bishop of Liverpool, giving me an inkling that I wouldn’t be coming across many agricultural labourers or factory workers. And I was right. His forebears were impressive to say the least, of whom I will come to later. I also found out where the name Gilbert came from.

If we look at the Ryle side of the family first. His father was indeed a son of John Charles Ryle, the first Anglican Bishop of Liverpool from 1880 to his retirement in 1900 (he died not long after). He was a well respected religious figure, thoroughly steeped in the beliefs of the Bible. He was quoted as saying,

‘It is still the first book which fits the child’s mind when he begins to learn religion, and the last to which the old man clings as he leaves the world.’

He literaly bled the Bible. The respect he had is summed up by the Rev. Richard Hobson who said these words just 3 days after his funeral.

“He [J.C. Ryle] was great through the abounding grace of God. He was great in stature; great in mental power; great in spirituality; great as a preacher and expositor of God’s most holy Word; great in hospitality; great as a writer of Gospel tracts; great as a Bishop of the Reformed Evangelical Protestant Church in England, of which he was a noble defender; great as first Bishop of Liverpool. I am bold to say, that perhaps few men in the nineteenth century did as much for God, for truth, and for righteousness, among the English speaking race, and in the world, as our late Bishop.”

He married 3 times. His first wife was Matilda Charlotte Louisa Plumptree who died 3 years after their marriage in 1845. They had one daughter, Georgina Matilda Ryle, born in Hemingham, Suffolk. J.C. Ryle was rector of Helmingham for many years, though only Georgina was born in this county. Reginald and his other siblings, Jessie Isabella, Herbert Edward and Arthur Johnstone, were all born in London. Their mother was John’s 2nd wife, Jessy Elizabeth Walker, whom he married in 1850, in the Newton Abbot district. She died in Suffolk in 1860. So who were J.C. Ryle’s parents?

FamilySearch.org comes up with a christening for John, 28 Sep. 1816 at Macclesfield, Cheshire. All I could find at this stage that his parents were John Ryle and his wife Susan. I checked for any siblings for John and I found, Emma Ryle, christened 14 Dec. 1814, Susan, christ. 10 June 1813, Caroline, christ. 7 Dec. 1818, Mary Ann, christ. 11 Feb. 1812 (born 30 Oct. 1811), and Frederick William, christ. 28 Nov. 1820. Apart from John’s entry, all the others stated that Susannah was their mother’s name. This bit of information turned out be really useful later. All christenings were performed at Christ Church, Macclesfield. By finding these entries I could narrow the search for John and Susannah’s marriage.

So, another delve into FamilySearch revealed only one possible marriage, an entry that stated that a John Ryle married a Susannah Hurt at Wirksworth in Derbyshire on 6 Feb. 1811. A quick look on Google maps showed me that Wirksworth wasn’t too far away from Macclesfield, so thought it was a possibility and nothing more. What happened next is all too typical when researching family trees and one of the reasons why I love doing this. I thought a general Google search would possibly help me in trying to nail down this marriage I was looking for. One of the top results revealed that there might be a link with someone with the name of Richard Arkwright. I knew that name rang a bell! It was one of those historical names that gets burned into every young student of British history, possibly on a par with the Battle of Hastings. I looked at the 1851 English census hoping that John and Susannah had survived to be on it. I was lucky. There they were living in Hampshire with their daughter Mary Anne, a 39 year old spinster. It revealed that Susannah was born in Cromford, Derbyshire. Something quite epoch making occured at Cromford. It has been labelled as the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution and one of its instigators was Sir Richard Arkwright, famously known for starting the modern factory system, by making spinning cotton more economical and therefore made increasing profits a reality. He utilised the power of water to run his water frame patent. Eventually the power loom was invented and implemented into his factories. It turns out that he ‘borrowed’ the ideas of other inventors, but nevertheless died a wealthy man and a knight. Susannah Hurt came from a wealthy landowning family, more affluent than Arkwright’s ever was. Her father was Charles Hurt who married Richard Arkwright’s daughter, Susannah, a product of his first wife Margaret Biggens, in 1780. So Sir Richard Arkwright was the great grandfather to John Charles Ryle, and great great great grandfather to Gilbert Ryle.

The parents of Sir Richard were Thomas and Ellen (nee Hodgekinson) Arkwright and were married on 29 August, 1717 at St Peter’s Church, Liverpool. Thomas was a tailor from Preston, and in his youth Richard was an unsuccessful barber and maker of wigs!

Gilbert Ryle’s mother was Catherine Scott and through her genealogical line he has some notable ancestors. Viewing the 1871 census I found that her mother, Georgina, was already a widow before she was 51. In fact her husband, Samuel King Scott, a doctor, had died from the after effects of a heart attack on the 9th June 1865. Click here to see his obituary. Samuel King Scott married Georgina Bodley on the 14th May, 1846 at Hove, Sussex. I will address her family later. According to FamilySearch, Samuel was christened at Gawcott, near Buckingham on the 3rd Jan, 1819. His other siblings were George Gilbert (1811), Euphemia (1812), Nathaniel Gilbert (1814), Elizabeth King (1815), William Langton (1817), Mary Jane (1821), Anne (1822), Elizabeth (1824) and Melville Horne (1827). The parents of all these grandly named children were Thomas and Euphemia (nee Lynch) Scott.  You may recognise the first born. George Gilbert Scott was a well known and one of the most influencial and prolific English architects and a luminary of the gothic revival in architecture. If you walk down the streets of London, no doubt you will go past at least one of his buildings. I like to think of him as the original conservator of English heritage and without his work many buildings we cherish today would have surley been lost.  Rather than write all of his creations down here, it might be a better if you click on his Wikipedia page. He was buried at Westminster Abbey, among the most famous and royal.

His father, Thomas Scott was a preacher just like his famous father, another Thomas Scott, and a minister at Ebberton near Olney, Buckinghamshire. Thomas Scott senior was nicknamed ‘Bible Scott’ and often referred to as ‘Scott the Commentator’ and wrote the books ‘A Commentary On The Whole Bible’ and ‘The Force of Truth’. He was born in Lincolnshire on Feb. 16 1747 and married Jane Kell whom he met when he moved to Buckinghamshire. He had a rough upbringing by all accounts and when he became a man of God he made sure that his sons got a better education. Three went to Cambridge for their degrees.

Returning to Thomas Scott the younger, he married Euphemia Lynch at Bledlow, Buckinghamshire on 25 Mar. 1806. This is the point where my research ventures overseas. I find that Euphemia was born in Antigua on 13 Jan. 1785, and was the daughter of Dr Thomas Lynch and Euphemia Gilbert. The Gilberts were wealthy land owners in the Carribean and were strong Wesleyan Methodists. Most probably this Thomas Lynch was related to another Thomas Lynch who was a governor of Jamaica in the 17th century.

Euphemia Gilbert was the daughter of Nathaniel Gilbert and Elizabeth Lavington. This Nathaniel Gilbert was probably the minister of Sierra Leone, a position he shared with the Rev. Melville Horne. Now we know why one of Samuel King Scott’s brothers was named Melville Horne Scott on 1 May, 1827. I dare say the other middle names for the children of Thomas and Euphemia Scott came from prominent churchmen of their time of which their families were part of the religious circle. Also, the Gilberts thought that they were the descendents of Sir Humphrey Gilbert (1539-1583), a half brother of Sir Walter Raleigh. I’ve gently dipped into this claim and as of the time of writing I haven’t found the connection, but it’s certainly worthy of further, detailed research.

There seems to be a lot of connections with doctors, architects and the church in Gilbert Ryle’s family. It’s an interesting mix and I feel that it’s totally complimentary. Churchmen would certainly have had an input in the design or additions of their churches, becoming symbols of their love to God and all he stands for. Also, the architect has the opportunity to produce a unique building, perhaps representing the one and only God that they worship. And doctors take on the role of the saviour of men, women and children, preserving their lives so that they can carry on becoming God faring citizens of society. Samuel King Scott‘s son Bernard (born c.1858) became a surgeon and his daughter Elisabeth became an architect. One of her designs was the Shakespeare Memorial Theatre at Stratford-Upon-Avon, which had mixed reviews. George Bernard Shaw liked it but Sir Edward Elgar publically admonished it.

“Sir Edward Elgar, then 75, was to be the theatre’s new musical director but, after visiting the building, he so was furiously angry with that “awful female” and her “unspeakably ugly and wrong” design that he would have nothing further to do with it, refusing even to go inside” (Wikipedia, from Beauman (1982: 100), quoted in Stamp (2004).

However, Elisabeth Scott was a pioneer in the cause of women becoming accepted as architects, and before her death in 1972 she worked with Bournmouth Borough Council.

Another Scott family member in the architect business was George Gilbert Scott jnr (1839-1897), son of Sir George Gilbert Scott who designed buildings at various Cambridge Universities and St John the Baptist Church, Norwich, now a Roman Catholic Church. Some of his best work was detroyed during the Blitz. He had an unfortunate and sadly ironic end. After a spell in France which he went to recover from alcoholism and mental ill health, he returned to work in England, but died in a room at the Midland Hotel, St Pancras Railway Station, a building his father designed. His sons, Giles Gilbert and Adrian Gilbert Scott both worked on the Anglican Liverpool Cathedral. In fact for a brief time he was in collaboration with George Frederick Bodley, whose sister, Georgina, had married Samuel King Scott.

This brings me nicely to this lady just mentioned. Georgina was the daughter of Willian Hulme Bodley and Mary Ann Hamilton. William was a physician (another doctor!) and hailed from Hull.

This has been my most detailed assignment so far, but there has been a vast amount of interesting connections and notable people to write about in Gilbert Ryle’s ancestry. You can see him discuss his theories on the mind and how we use language to shape our concepts. A bit heavy at times but guaranteed to make you wonder about how we described things to each other, whether its correct or nonsense. To be honest I have taken more time trying to understand what Gilbert Ryle was actually theorising about than the time taken to construct his family tree. I think I know what he means, but don’t ask me to explain it though!

Rooms for Rent – Only Shetlanders Need Apply!

The title of this post might seem bizzare at first but all will be revealed later. Researching Ringo Starr’s family tree has been a joy to do because for me it offered up something different in that I was surprised at what I found.

Fortunately I discovered that Nick Barratt had already researched Ringo’s family history for an article for the Telegraph, and I was glad that there were areas that he had not covered. Checking this out saved me a lot of work. Another stroke of luck was the abundance of original images of records that Ancestry had. I applaud their efforts in trying to make available as much original stuff as possible (and it keeps growing), but it is a hit and miss affair whether the record you’re after will be found. With my research on Ringo’s roots I was lucky to find more than usual and became useful in the tree progressing.

I looked at the Starkey line, Ringo’s real surname, knowing that Nick had found difficulty in making much headway with it, and the best I could do was find the marriage image for John Parkin Startkey and Annie Bower, Ringo’s paternal grandparents, which at least had the name of John’s father as Henry Parkin Starkey. However, Henry and indeed John are very elusive and my week long research was not sufficient to find out who they were or where they lived. I concentrated on a line that was not apparant with the research from Nick Barratt, namely Ringo’s maternal grandmother, Catherine Martha Johnson.

She was baptised at St Thomas’ Church, Toxteth Park on 17 May 1891 (born on 25 Apr., 1891) to Andrew and Mary Elizabeth Johnson of 37 Gaskell Street. Andrew’s occupation was put down as a sailor. They were married at the same church on 14 April, 1875, Andrew stating he was a mariner just like his father Peter. This excited me a bit because I am fascinated by anything to do with the sea, probably because I have mariners on my mother’s side. Mary Elizabeth Cunningham father, James was a gardener. Finding them in the 1891 Census revealed that Andrew was born in the Shetland Isles and Mary hailed from Ireland. So I thought, how hard is it going to be researching someone from the Shetlands? What records can I find? Andrew was my first Shetland Islander and I wasn’t sure if I could progress. I knew that researching Mary would probably come to a halt because of the scarcity of available Irish records, and it would plain luck if I did find something. So I began looking and was pleasantly surprised how much I could find thanks to the FamilySearch site. But before trying to peel away the hidden generations of Andrew I wanted to find out when he came to Liverpool, and whether he had a childhood there. Was it Peter who came down looking for seafaring work or would I find him settled in alittle cold corner of the Isles that are called Shetland. So I looked in the 1871 census hoping to find either Andrew or Peter. What I found was truly amazing. Andrew Johnson was 39 in the 1891 census, so I knew I was looking for a nineteen year old Andrew. Boarding at what appears on the census sheet as 43 Upper Pitt Street was not only Andrew but a whole bunch of Shetland Islanders! Including Andrew eight in all, and an Ursula Johnson, 17, and a servant at the household. Could this be a relation of Andrew’s? It was run by a William and Agnes Thompson, both in their 60’s, and Edward seemed to be still active as a mariner. Then it was time to get educated about Shetland. The hunt for Andrew’s family was on.

FamilySearch came up with a baptism:-

Andrew Johnson born 2 Jan., 1852, christened 26 Jan., 1852 at Delting, Shetland, Scotland. Parents: Peter Johnson and Philias Tait.

Now I wasn’t aware that those far off islands were a part of Scotland, and at first I thought that they might have had their own census. Thankfully I had access to the Scotland census, transcribed, but nonetheless useful resource. I wondered if I could find who Ursula was.

Ursula Johnson born 27 October, 1853, christened 10 Jan., 1854 at Delting, Shetland. Parents: Peter Johnson and Philias Tait.

So my initial hunch that Ursula was Andrew’s sister turned out to be a good one. And a quick check on the 1861 Scotland census reveals the following:

Phillis Johnson (44)   –   Farms 4 acres    –  born Lunnasting, Shetland

Mary Johnson (11)      –     scholar              –  born Delting, Shetland

Andrew Johnson (9)   –    scholar               –  born Delting, Shetland

Ursilla Johnson (7)     –     scholar              –  born Delting, Shetland

Catherine Johnson (5) –   scholar               –  born Delting, Shetland

Peter Johnson (3)         – scholar                  –  born Delting, Shetland

Isabell Frazin (45)        – servant, ag.lab     –  born Sandsting, Shetland

Where Peter was I don’t know, and to be honest I didn’t look too hard. I was more concerned with going back in time and finding Ringo’s Shetland great-great-great grandparents.

In the 1851 Scotland census we find Peter and Phila (probably Phillis) are at 15 Burns Lane, Lerwick visiting the Hutchinson’s, a mother and daughter whose occupation were knitters. Over at Delting we find their first born (I presume) Mary Johnson living with grandparents Magnus and Ursula Johnson, and their son Laurence. Magnus is an incredible 87 years old and his wife considerably younger and a sprightly 63, and it would not surprise me with such an age difference, if she was his second wife. In fact FamilySearch comes up with a marriage between a Magnus Johnson and Wrcilla I on 30 Sept. 1806 at Delting and a Magnus Johnson marring a Robina Henry on 12 Jan 1792, again at Delting. Could this be the same man?

In the 1841 census we find a family of Johnson’s which have all the familiar names associated with this interesting family line of Ringo Starr:

Magnus Johnson (70)        –  Farmer       –  Born Orkney and Shetland

Ursla Johnson (55)             –                       –  Born Orkney and Shetland

Laurence Johnson (25)      – Fisherman  –  Born Orkney and Shetland

Catherine Johnson (20)     –                       –  Born Orkney and Shetland

James Johnson (18)            – Fisherman  –  Born Orkney and Shetland

Peter Johnson (16)              – Fisherman  –  Born Orkney and Shetland

Andrew Johnson (12)          –                      –  Born Orkney and Shetland

Finally, I found Peter Johnson’s baptism record. Ringo’s great-great grandfather was christened on 28 May 1824 at Delting, born 20 May the same year. Being christened only a week after birth suggests that he didn’t have the healthiest of starts and that his parents were not sure of his survival.

Could I go further in time? Using the databases of FamilySearch there is a possibility that I may have. There is an entry for a Magnus Johnson christening for 6 March 1766 at Delting, with a Lawrence Johnson as the father. Could this be Ringo Starr’s great-great-great-great grandfather?

And what about Ursula, Magnus’ wife?

Well, I found a christening for a Ursula Jameson for 24 December, 1788 at Fetlar, Shetland which could be her. Going back to that Liverpool boarding house ran by the couple from Shetland there was also William Thompson’s mother-in-law, a grand old lady of 89 and also hailing from Shetland, named Elizabeth Jameson. Could she have a familial link to Andrew and Ursula and giving us an answer to why they were there?

Welsh roots of The Beatles – John Lennon

Liverpool has been well known for increasing its population in the 19th century with a substantial Welsh and Irish contingent. Many came to the famous English port predominantly for work opportunities, leaving their taciturn, simple lifestyles in their rural countries, and deciding to take their chances with the harsh, and at times brutal industrial environment, in the rapidly populous areas of north west England. The obvious question that is often asked by genealogists is this. Why did so many leave the security of their long established communities to expose themselves to the relatively unknown elements that we associate with industrialisation?

This is our perspective gained from the advantage of having hindsight. At the time our ancestors were struggling to survive in their own areas. They could see that their communities were worsening and felt that they did not have a choice. They must have made these decisions with a mixture of trepidation and excitement. The prospect of giving themselves a better income and therefore a higher standard of living must have been a great motivator. Some did find fame and fortune but of course a great many didn’t, finding life hard, and constantly surrounded by death and hopeless poverty. We have to thank those individuals who dared to venture to these grimy, dangerous and unforgiven territories and give birth to future generations so that they could get a chance to make a mark on the world.

Such humble backgrounds can be found when investigating the ancestry of the four members of the Beatles. Predominantly more Irish than Welsh, the research so far has taken me to some interesting locations. However, the purpose of the research was to concentrate on their Welsh origins, and this is what I want to focus on. The Irish ancestry has been well researched and I thought it would be a good assignment to locate any Welsh ancestry that the fab four have got. A good source for John Lennon’s Irish ancestry can be found here

John Lennon has Welsh roots on his mother’s side. Julia Stanley (1914-1958) was the daughter of George Ernest Stanley and Annie Jane Millward, who were married late 1906. They had four daughter, Mary (b.24 Apr. 1906), Elizabeth Jane (1909), Julia, and Harriet (1916). On the whole researching the Milward line proved to be quite time consuming and exact, accurate records were difficult to find online. This is a classic example of the type of difficulty family historians can come up against. Some people can be difficult to find especially on the census records, and this is exactly what I found when trying to pinpoint the parentage of John’s grandmother Annie.

I could only find Annie Jane for certain in two census: 1881 and 1911. There is an Annie Milward living at 62 Frederick St, Liverpool, in the 1901 census, in the house of a Harry Daley, a native of the United States. The only problem is birthplace which is stated as Liverpool. She was born in Chester. However this kind of mistake is not unusual. As she was a boarder at the property she probably wasn’t asked by the landlord where she was born. He assumed Liverpool so wrote that down instead of Chester. Her profession was seamstress which again points me in the right direction because she states in the 1911 census, which is more reliable, that she was a tailoress.

Her father was John Milward and in the 1881 census, the enumerator has written ‘Wales’ as his birthplace. It often frustrates me that the enumerator didn’t bother to write exactly where John stated where he was born. This occurs with census information concerning Scots and the Irish immigrants as well. In 1891 he states he was born in Rhyl, Flintshire. 

Various websites have come up with different names for Annie’s mother, the wife for John Milward. I can only find one census where I can categorically know for sure that Annie’s parents were John Milward and Mary E Milward. But with such ambiguity it is essential to hunt down the marriage record to make sure. Of course there is always the possibility that some couples who state they were married on the census were in reality not, or got married in later years.

1881 census – Liverpool

John Millward (43) – clerk in law stationer’s office – born Wales
Mary E Millward (30) – wife                                               – born Wales
Annie J Millward (8) – dau                                                   – born Chester
Mary E Millward (6) – dau                                                    – born Liverpool
Harriet C E Millward – dau                                                   – born Liverpool

Residence: 17 Kent Square

In the 1891 Liverpool census, St Paul’s district:-

John Millward (48) – Wid – boarder – clerk, merchants – born, Flintshire,  Ryle                                                                                                                   
Mary Millward (16) – single – boarder – servant                 – born Liverpool

Residence: 71 Highfield St.

However, I’m still unsure and would never assume anything based on this kind of census evidence. This shows how difficult family research can be!

Searching for the family of John Milward has been difficult too. It appears that his father was a Thomas Milward born in St. Asaph, North Wales, but here too it is not so straight forward. Checking the 1841 census there are two Thomas Milward born in St. Asaph, and at first I thought that I had found a father and son with the same christian name. It is a mistake to assume that the surname Milward/Millward must be rare in North Wales, not Welsh sounding at all. In fact there appears to be earlier generations of Milwards in the North Wales area, increasing the possibility of the existence of another Thomas. Later census reveal that Thomas was at least 24 years older than his wife Jane, and reveal a consistency of having a son named John (Annie Jane’s father) but who is the other Thomas in the 1841 census?

1841 census – St. Asaph

Thomas Milward (50) – gardener        – born in county
Francis Edwards (25) – painter             – born in county
Anne Jones (50) – servant maid           – born in county
Elizabeth Milward (15)                             – born in county

Residence: Bronwylfa St.


Thomas Milward (35) – gardener        – born in county
Jane Milward (35)                                      – not born in county
Edward Milward (11)                                 – born in county
John Milward (7)                                         – born in county
Elizabeth Milward (5)                                – born in county
Mary Milward (2)                                        – born in county

Residence: Roe? (near Elwy Cottage)

From a present perspective this could flumox a researcher because it seems like a mistake has been made by the enumerator. I was searching for one Thomas Milward who fits the criterias to make him the one I’m looking for. Seeing two of them (and on the same census page) places a seed of doubt. Has the enumerator made a mistake, and duplicated the entry? Knowing that the 1841 census was not noted for being the most accurate, enumerator mistakes, or rather the lack of a stringent accurate attitude, are expected, so what do I think is going on here?

I interpret this data as it stands, namely there are two Thomas Milwards. It would make much more sense if the two Thomas’ swapped places! What I think is that there is a Thomas Milward who was a gardener and living with a painter named Francis Edwards, probably a relative, aged around 50, but there was also another with a wife and family, and aged the same as his wife. Probably the enumerator either couldn’t make out the scribblings of Thomas’s writing on the original sheet, and guessed that he must have been around the same age, or he didn’t care about the accuracy!

So, it would be interesting to research the Millwards of Flintshire and Denbighshire and there are a lot of them. My online research has revealed that they first appeared in the area as early as 1767, a marriage between a John Millward and a Frances Williams at St Mary’s Church, Flint. They had at least 7 children. Originally, they came from the West Midlands area, probably Shropshire or Staffordshire.

In conclusion, I didn’t uncover any new information on John Lennon’s Welsh roots, but have opened up the possibility of further research. Thomas Milward’s wife was from Denbighshire, and more likely his mother was Welsh too, and the elusive wife of John Millward, if she could be positively identified, will open up another purely Welsh lineage to his family tree.