Tag Archives: census

Welsh roots of The Beatles – John Lennon

Liverpool has been well known for increasing its population in the 19th century with a substantial Welsh and Irish contingent. Many came to the famous English port predominantly for work opportunities, leaving their taciturn, simple lifestyles in their rural countries, and deciding to take their chances with the harsh, and at times brutal industrial environment, in the rapidly populous areas of north west England. The obvious question that is often asked by genealogists is this. Why did so many leave the security of their long established communities to expose themselves to the relatively unknown elements that we associate with industrialisation?

This is our perspective gained from the advantage of having hindsight. At the time our ancestors were struggling to survive in their own areas. They could see that their communities were worsening and felt that they did not have a choice. They must have made these decisions with a mixture of trepidation and excitement. The prospect of giving themselves a better income and therefore a higher standard of living must have been a great motivator. Some did find fame and fortune but of course a great many didn’t, finding life hard, and constantly surrounded by death and hopeless poverty. We have to thank those individuals who dared to venture to these grimy, dangerous and unforgiven territories and give birth to future generations so that they could get a chance to make a mark on the world.

Such humble backgrounds can be found when investigating the ancestry of the four members of the Beatles. Predominantly more Irish than Welsh, the research so far has taken me to some interesting locations. However, the purpose of the research was to concentrate on their Welsh origins, and this is what I want to focus on. The Irish ancestry has been well researched and I thought it would be a good assignment to locate any Welsh ancestry that the fab four have got. A good source for John Lennon’s Irish ancestry can be found here

John Lennon has Welsh roots on his mother’s side. Julia Stanley (1914-1958) was the daughter of George Ernest Stanley and Annie Jane Millward, who were married late 1906. They had four daughter, Mary (b.24 Apr. 1906), Elizabeth Jane (1909), Julia, and Harriet (1916). On the whole researching the Milward line proved to be quite time consuming and exact, accurate records were difficult to find online. This is a classic example of the type of difficulty family historians can come up against. Some people can be difficult to find especially on the census records, and this is exactly what I found when trying to pinpoint the parentage of John’s grandmother Annie.

I could only find Annie Jane for certain in two census: 1881 and 1911. There is an Annie Milward living at 62 Frederick St, Liverpool, in the 1901 census, in the house of a Harry Daley, a native of the United States. The only problem is birthplace which is stated as Liverpool. She was born in Chester. However this kind of mistake is not unusual. As she was a boarder at the property she probably wasn’t asked by the landlord where she was born. He assumed Liverpool so wrote that down instead of Chester. Her profession was seamstress which again points me in the right direction because she states in the 1911 census, which is more reliable, that she was a tailoress.

Her father was John Milward and in the 1881 census, the enumerator has written ‘Wales’ as his birthplace. It often frustrates me that the enumerator didn’t bother to write exactly where John stated where he was born. This occurs with census information concerning Scots and the Irish immigrants as well. In 1891 he states he was born in Rhyl, Flintshire. 

Various websites have come up with different names for Annie’s mother, the wife for John Milward. I can only find one census where I can categorically know for sure that Annie’s parents were John Milward and Mary E Milward. But with such ambiguity it is essential to hunt down the marriage record to make sure. Of course there is always the possibility that some couples who state they were married on the census were in reality not, or got married in later years.

1881 census – Liverpool

John Millward (43) – clerk in law stationer’s office – born Wales
Mary E Millward (30) – wife                                               – born Wales
Annie J Millward (8) – dau                                                   – born Chester
Mary E Millward (6) – dau                                                    – born Liverpool
Harriet C E Millward – dau                                                   – born Liverpool

Residence: 17 Kent Square

In the 1891 Liverpool census, St Paul’s district:-

John Millward (48) – Wid – boarder – clerk, merchants – born, Flintshire,  Ryle                                                                                                                   
Mary Millward (16) – single – boarder – servant                 – born Liverpool

Residence: 71 Highfield St.

However, I’m still unsure and would never assume anything based on this kind of census evidence. This shows how difficult family research can be!

Searching for the family of John Milward has been difficult too. It appears that his father was a Thomas Milward born in St. Asaph, North Wales, but here too it is not so straight forward. Checking the 1841 census there are two Thomas Milward born in St. Asaph, and at first I thought that I had found a father and son with the same christian name. It is a mistake to assume that the surname Milward/Millward must be rare in North Wales, not Welsh sounding at all. In fact there appears to be earlier generations of Milwards in the North Wales area, increasing the possibility of the existence of another Thomas. Later census reveal that Thomas was at least 24 years older than his wife Jane, and reveal a consistency of having a son named John (Annie Jane’s father) but who is the other Thomas in the 1841 census?

1841 census – St. Asaph

Thomas Milward (50) – gardener        – born in county
Francis Edwards (25) – painter             – born in county
Anne Jones (50) – servant maid           – born in county
Elizabeth Milward (15)                             – born in county

Residence: Bronwylfa St.


Thomas Milward (35) – gardener        – born in county
Jane Milward (35)                                      – not born in county
Edward Milward (11)                                 – born in county
John Milward (7)                                         – born in county
Elizabeth Milward (5)                                – born in county
Mary Milward (2)                                        – born in county

Residence: Roe? (near Elwy Cottage)

From a present perspective this could flumox a researcher because it seems like a mistake has been made by the enumerator. I was searching for one Thomas Milward who fits the criterias to make him the one I’m looking for. Seeing two of them (and on the same census page) places a seed of doubt. Has the enumerator made a mistake, and duplicated the entry? Knowing that the 1841 census was not noted for being the most accurate, enumerator mistakes, or rather the lack of a stringent accurate attitude, are expected, so what do I think is going on here?

I interpret this data as it stands, namely there are two Thomas Milwards. It would make much more sense if the two Thomas’ swapped places! What I think is that there is a Thomas Milward who was a gardener and living with a painter named Francis Edwards, probably a relative, aged around 50, but there was also another with a wife and family, and aged the same as his wife. Probably the enumerator either couldn’t make out the scribblings of Thomas’s writing on the original sheet, and guessed that he must have been around the same age, or he didn’t care about the accuracy!

So, it would be interesting to research the Millwards of Flintshire and Denbighshire and there are a lot of them. My online research has revealed that they first appeared in the area as early as 1767, a marriage between a John Millward and a Frances Williams at St Mary’s Church, Flint. They had at least 7 children. Originally, they came from the West Midlands area, probably Shropshire or Staffordshire.

In conclusion, I didn’t uncover any new information on John Lennon’s Welsh roots, but have opened up the possibility of further research. Thomas Milward’s wife was from Denbighshire, and more likely his mother was Welsh too, and the elusive wife of John Millward, if she could be positively identified, will open up another purely Welsh lineage to his family tree.


The trials of being on genealogy sites

I recently bought the latest version of Family Tree Maker (Platinum Edition) at a bargain price of £29.99 at my local Currys/PC World outlet. What made it even more of a  bargain was the fact that it had a 6 months trial for Ancestry.co.uk bundled with it. Even with my low funds I couldn’t pass on grabbing it. After making a double-take on the price I also had to check with a sales assistant to make sure they had not made a mistake. They hadn’t so out came my debit card!

Anyway, this stroke of luck has come weeks after I had tried the 14 day trials with the ‘big three’ in the genealogy internet sites. My first thought when I found out about the trials was how generous the amount of time they were prepared to give to potential subscribers. I could undertake a lot of research in 2 weeks and I did do in what turned out to be 6 weeks jumping from one to the other. I’ll say right out that Ancestry was the best experience. They allowed me to access ALL the UK resources and they were easy to find, even with my old, slow, crappy laptop. Find My Past wasn’t too bad when I got the hang of the navigation and I did find the BMD index really spot on with little errors. It was so easy to access BMD images of husband and wife entries. The main drawback was the limitation of access to the records. Find My Past only allows you to acces the all available census and the BMD index, but for what I wanted it was good enough. The advantage with Ancestry is that you can access those all important parish records and on a couple of assignments the images I could access really helped me bridge gaps in my research. Also on Find My Past you are only allowed to see 600 images, and if you reach this limit before the 2 weeks are up, that’s your lot. Without realising this I reached it in 4 days!

The last trial I tried was The Genealogist and they come a distant last because of two things in particular. I wasn’t happy with some of the images that they produce, especially with the census. They look like they are scans of photocopies to me. They look quite contrasty and the quality of the written content (the most important bits!) are less defined. When a photocopy gets copied again the image gets worse, and of course if that gets copied it gets even more worse. These on The Genealogist look as if they have been through a few photocopies. I can’t say if ALL their census records are like this because I didn’t see all of them. I have to say, though, that they have an impressive collection of non-conformist records and these have come in useful for me when I used to subscribe to them a few years ago. It’s quite useful if a person can’t be found through the church of England registers, just to check if they were Babtists or Methodists, as I have found with some of my family history.

Another thing I found quite alarming was that The Genealogist began processing the cost of a yearly subscription on the day I signed up for the free trial! So, £106 went missing from my bank account, suspended in cyberspace, and when I cancelled the free trial it took 10 days for it to return from whence it came! I thought it was really unappropriate for them to do such a thing, so before trying their trial I would suggest that you make sure you won’t go short on funds. To my knowledge both Ancestry and Find My Past do not do this sort of thing. In fact just to make sure I phoned Ancestry yesterday before I activated this 6 month trial, and they confirmed to me that they send a couple of e-mails to the subscriber to remind them that the free period is coming to the end. It would be a silly situation if they put over £100 of my money into cyberspace for 6 months now wouldn’t it?